“Thunderbolts*” managed to recapture by delivering a post-credits scene that actually means something, Riri Williams’ (Dominique Thorne) adventure ends with a struggling villain trying to get back to his former glory and visiting a mutual associate of Ironheart that could play a bigger part in the future of the MCU, and specifically for one A-list hero.
After being cut loose from the long-awaited villain Mephisto (Sacha Baron Cohen), Parker Robbins, aka The Hood (Anthony Ramos), is now a lone agent, since the team he gathered is scattered to the winds. On a mission to reclaim his former title and take hold of the power he once had, Robbins tracks down the Stantons’ store, fully aware of the secret the establishment hides and how it can help Robbins’ mission of getting his ill-fitting Hood back. (Boy, did that thing look terrible.) While it might seem a little questionable as to why this new and mysterious customer gets special treatment from Zelma Stanton (Regan Aliyah) within minutes, the young spell-wielder-in-the-making has proven she’s willing to get mystical at the drop of a magic hat. The concern here is just how deep into the sacred arts she’ll find herself for the criminal formerly known as The Hood, and what it will cost her when Robbins gets his threads back.
Marvel Studios
It’s already been well established that Robbins can talk anyone into getting into cahoots with him with the right pitch, regardless of the dangers he might be sending them to face in the process. Keeping this in mind, it wouldn’t be a total shocker if the impressionable Zelma was the first on his list of new team members, which could find him one step closer to becoming an even greater threat to the MCU.
In the comics, Robbins became a significant presence and a formidable threat to both heroes and villains alike. Facing off against The Kingpin and The Avengers on occasion, he even pushed Doctor Strange to such a limit that he lost his title of Sorcerer Supreme battling him. To be this impactful, it would make sense that The Hood would lead Zelma down the wrong path and regain (and perhaps even surpass) his previous state that was offered to him by Mephisto. The problem with doing that is it could draw the attention of the wrong crowd for The Hood. After narrowly living to scheme another day and taking on Riri, this return to old tricks could find him on the radar of other magic-wielders in the MCU and characters that Zelma’s mother has already lightly referred to. After all, when spells are cast and ancient evils are revived, sometimes the best option is to call for a Doctor.
Marvel Comics
Besides The Hood having a few run-ins with Doctor Strange over the years in the comics, Zelma also has a longstanding history with the most magical member of The Avengers. Debuting in “Doctor Strange” #1 in 2015, Zelma called on Strange for aid when she came down with a nasty Mind Maggots infection. Stephen eventually addressed the issue, but in doing so, led to Zelma being more sensitive to magic and employing her as a librarian at Strange Academy, which is one of the best “Doctor Strange” comics you need to read (think Hogwarts for the MCU with Strange as its Dumbledore). Currently, though, Strange Academy has since gone under new management with none other than Doctor Doom becoming the new Sorcerer Supreme and relocating the school to the villain’s homeland of Latveria and renaming it Doom Academy.
With all these major story details happening in the comics around The Hood and his new potential ally, it would make sense for other big hitters in the MCU like Benedict Cumberbatch’s Doctor Strange or even the MCU’s Sorcerer Supreme, Wong (Benedict Wong), to turn up to help Riri with whatever Robbins throws at her next. That crossover would be in the same vein as when Kamala Khan (Iman Vellani) met Carol Danvers (Brie Larson), just with a more magical spin. For now, all we can hope for is that whenever The Hood returns suited and booted, Riri is ready to deal with the issue and uses even more powerful magic and mechanics to take him down.
Created by Stan Lee and artist John Buscema, Mephisto debuted in 1968’s “Silver Surfer” #3. Ruler of a Hell dimension, he takes an interest in the Silver Surfer; the Surfer’s noble heart is the mirror image of Mephisto’s own, so he wants to vanquish it. Lee and Buscema’s “Silver Surfer” primarily focuses on its heroes feeling disillusioned with humanity’s violent and hateful ways. Who else could be the Surfer’s main adversary than the one inducing people to give into their hearts’ darkness?
Marvel Comics
Mephisto returned a few more times in the title’s 18 issues and has since become a Marvel Comics fixture. He’s not bound to a single book’s ensemble but is more of a general evil that many superheroes have had to contend with. (Why else would he be debuting in “Ironheart,” of all places?)
Mephisto’s name comes from the legend of Faust or the original deal with the Devil story. Faust, a learned man, sells his soul to the demon Mephistopheles. Nowadays, Mephistopheles is often equated with Lucifer/Satan, even though in the Faust story he technically isn’t the same being. The same distinction can be made between Marvel’s Mephisto and the Devil.
As a young boy, I owned an edition of “The Marvel Encyclopedia,” an often-updated book going through the Marvel universe’s characters A-Z. In Mephisto’s entry, I read (paraphrased from memory): “He is not the biblical Satan and his domain is not the Hell of scripture.” “Why?” I thought. He’s so clearly the Devil, why obfuscate that?
Well, remember that Mephisto debuted in 1968. The Comics Code Authority (CCA), instituted in 1954 in response to accusations comics were feeding kids subversive and illicit themes, was still in effect. The CCA explicitly prohibited horror, monsters, and “ridicule” of any religion. Lee and Buscema calling their Devil character “Mephisto” reeks of plausible deniability; it’s a more obscure name than Satan, Lucifer, or just the Devil. At the same time, Mephisto explicitly refers to “his Satanic will” in “Silver Surfer” #3, so they weren’t hiding it that hard.
Marvel Comics
The CCA is no longer a factor these days, but why have Marvel writers kept up the song and dance that Mephisto isn’t the real Devil? Probably because it’s safer, and more universal, to not so explicitly tie the Marvel universe’s cosmology to Christian ideas. Compare Mephisto to HIM (Tom Kane) in “The Powerpuff Girls.” A kids’ show like that couldn’t say he’s the Devil for cultural sensitivity reasons, but we all know who he’s supposed to be.
In any case, Lee and Buscema lifting the name from “Faust” reflects how Mephisto is characterized. Mephisto stories focus much more on the “ruler of Hell, corrupter of souls” side of Lucifer than the “fallen angel” side.
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The nearly 25-year-old Dora the Explorer franchise is gearing up for expansion.
On Wednesday, July 2, the Alberto Belli-directed live-action film, Dora and the Search for Sol Dorado, will premiere on both Paramount+ and Nickelodeon. While the family adventure technically serves as a sequel to 2019’s Dora and the Lost City of Gold (streaming now on Paramount+), the 2025 movie has an entirely new cast, including Samantha Lorraine replacing Isabela Merced as Dora.
At a Glance: How to Watch Dora and the Search for Sol Dorado Online
Since select streamers are offering free trials and limited-time discounts, viewers can watch the 2025 adaptation for free; keep reading to learn more about each option.
New eligible subscribers can watch the 2025 Dora the Explorer movie online for free with a seven-day trial to Paramount+. The film will be released on the streamer at 12 a.m. PT/3 a.m. ET on July 2.
After the trial period, subscriptions start at $7.99 per month for the ad-supported Paramount+ Essential plan. To go ad-free, the Paramount+ Premium package is $12.99 per month and includes Showtime content. Save on your Paramount+ subscription when you sign up for an annual package ($59.99 or $119.99 per year, respectively).
Seven-day free trial; packages from $7.99 per month
Since Dora and the Search for Sol Dorado simultaneously premieres on Nickelodeon on July 2, at 6 p.m. PT/ET, cord-cutters can watch on any live TV streaming service that carries the channel, including Philo, DirecTV, Fubo and Hulu + Live TV.
Seven-day free trial; $28 and up per month thereafter
Watch Nickelodeon for free with a seven-day trial to Philo, one of the most affordable cable alternatives. After the free trial, the Philo base plan is $28 per month.
Five-day free trial; packages from $34.99 per month
Nickelodeon is included in any of DirecTV’s signature packages: Entertainment, Choice, Ultimate or Premier. Plus, DirecTV is offering a five-day free trial for its streaming service. Learn more about each plan option, including how to build your own channel lineup (starting at just $34.99 per month), at directv.com.
Best Value
7-day free trial; packages from $79.99 per month
Watch Nickelodeon with a subscription to Fubo, which offers a seven-day free trial for new subscribers. After the trial, plans start at $64.99 for the first month and $84.99 monthly afterward.
Three-day free trial; packages from $82.99 per month
Watch Nickelodeon for free with a three-day trial to Hulu + Live TV, which comes bundled with Disney+ and ESPN+, starting at $82.99 per month.
Shop a wide assortment of Dora the Explorer merch, toys, books and physical media at Amazon and Walmart.
There’s a moment in Ridley Scott’s Gladiator when Russell Crowe’s enslaved Roman general Maximus, fresh from eviscerating five foes in short order, throws his arms in the air and asks a stunned arena, “Are you not entertained? Are you not entertained?”
It would not be that far from fiction to picture the organizers of Sunday night’s Golden Bee Awards repeating the same question after the final spectacle had been presented to close out a nearly three-hour ceremony held inside Gzira’s Fort Manoel in Malta. Presented by the Mediterrane Film Festival and hosted by David Walliams, the outdoor show finished shy of midnight and by that point had featured around a dozen musical numbers (complete with props, backup dancers and custom backdrops), a slew of Hollywood presenters (Anna Camp, Chris Perfetti, Jared Harris, Karen Pittman and Thunderbolts* director Jake Schreier), three fireworks displays and even Maximus himself.
Crowe made a triumphant (and surprise) return to Malta to accept a film legend award to mark the 25th anniversary of Gladiator. The film, like its recent sequel, was shot on the islands not far from the historic 18th century fort that hosted the awards and has long been a source of local pride.
“You want to know what I love about Malta? Everything,” Crowe declared, calling the island nation a “paradise,” one that he has regularly visited over the years on vacation. To prove his point, he said he arrived with his two sons, walked the streets of the capital city of Valletta at sunset, acquired his favorite lasagna and admired his favorite jewelry store Mario Zampa. “I love coming to Malta and I’m grateful for your welcome every time I’m here.”
Crowe accepted his trophy from Johann Grech, Malta film commissioner and CEO of Malta Film Studios. He praised Grech for his commitment and passion for Malta and his “understanding of the opportunity that Malta has at the center of the Mediterranean film industry.” With that, Crowe urged the local government to further fuel a commitment to the arts and to support education for young Maltese people “who want to explore film as a career in whatever capacity because it truly takes a village to make a movie.”
Grech looks on as Crowe accepts a Malta film legend award. Crowe, who won a best actor Oscar for his work in the 2000 film, also used part of his acceptance speech to call attention to a gold ring he wore in the recent The Pope’s Exorcist. The ring featured a Maltese crest and he said, “I hope you noticed and I hope you understood it was from love and respect.”
Courtesy of Shutterstock/Mediterrane Film Festival
Crowe then recounted coming to the country 26 years ago to star in the epic Gladiator. “You could say, in a funny way, I became a man in Malta,” he said. Whatever films I’d done before then, nothing had the majesty, ambition, budget and ultimately reach of Gladiator. I say ‘became a man’ because it wasn’t an easy production. I had to fight everyday for the integrity of the character I was playing, just like the journey of the character himself in a movie. Sometimes you get lucky enough to make something that resonates with people.”
It’s still resonating. Crowe detailed an encounter he had with a man a week ago while visiting Monterosso in Italy’s Cinque Terre. “I was leaving a restaurant at nighttime. As I came out in the street, this young man, he saw me, he recognized me, and he asked me for a photo,” Crowe recalled. “I shook his hand and he started to cry. His friends told me later that he’s the head lifeguard at the local beach — he’s got muscles on muscles and lots of responsibility and authority — and they’d never seen him like that.”
Crowe said the “crying got more intense” and the man couldn’t wipe the tears from his eyes, so he ended up hugging him. “When he got himself together, he said, ‘You don’t understand. When I was 8 years old, my mother sat me in front of TV and put on a video cassette of Gladiator. She told me that if you are ever wondering what type of man your mother expects you to be, it’s this type of man — the honor, the integrity, the faith, this type of man.’ A man made in Malta.”
The anecdote drew cheers and applause from the crowd, estimated at close to 2000 guests. Prior to Crowe’s remarks, Grech delivered a lengthy address that resonated much like a campaign speech. He paid particular attention to the milestone anniversary — 2025 marks 100 years of filming in Malta — while also noting the strides that have been made under his administration. Malta has long been a magnet for Hollywood as it has welcomed such films as Munich, Troy, Jurassic World Rebirth, Captain Phillips, World War Z, Murder on the Orient Express, Assassin’s Creed, By the Sea, The Da Vinci Code, The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Last Breath and dozens of others.
Grech called out the skeptics that doubted Malta’s place as an international hub for filmmaking and said that they’ve come from “yes we can” to “yes we have” over the past nearly eight years (thanks in large part to a lucrative 40 percent tax rebate). “The film industry is bigger than it’s ever been,” Grech said. “The next 100 years will be better than the first. Let us never stop believing because we are Malta. We are film.”
The last sentence repeated the theme of this year’s Mediterrane Film Festival, established on the islands of Malta in 2023 as a showcase for films from the area and beyond. This year’s edition wrapped Sunday after running from June 21-29, and featured 55 films from more than 20 countries. Sunday night’s Golden Bee Awards saw the official festival prizes doled out as chosen by the juries in addition to one people’s choice award.
Amel Guellaty’s Where the Wind Comes From picked up steam by claiming two awards including best feature film and best performance for Eya Bellagha’s starring turn in the drama which follows a rebellious 19-year-old Alyssa (Bellagha) and shy 23-year-old Mehdi (Slim Baccar) who dream of escaping their reality. Upon discovering a contest offering a chance to flee, they set out on a road trip to southern Tunisia.
Julio Medem’s 8 also picked up two prizes including best screenwriting for its writer-director Medem as well as a jury’s choice award. The film covers 90 years and follows the eight encounters between a man, Octavio (Javier Rey), and a woman, Adela (Ana Rujas), that so happen to mirror pivotal moments in Spain’s history. The Mare Nostrum award went to Miyazaki: Spirit of Nature, which was “recognized for its lyrical exploration of nature and spirit,” per the jury, while the people’s choice award went to Polly Steele’s Four Letters of Love.
Julio Medem with his best screenwriting award for 8.
Courtesy of Shutterstock/Mediterrane Film Festival
Polly Steele accepts the people’s choice award for her film Four Letters of Love.
Courtesy of Mediterrane Film Festival
Leo Favier, director of Miyazaki: Spirit of Nature, holds his Mare Nostrum Award.
Courtesy of Mediterrane Film Festival
Serving the Mediterrane Film Festival jury this year were Catherine Hardwicke, Elli Griff, Rick Carter, Charlese Antoinette, James Price, Mario Philip Azzopardi and Joseph Vassallo. A special Mare Nostrum jury, comprised of Grainne Humphreys, Ania Trzebiatowska and Melisa Sözen, selected from a roster of films curated around themes of climate and environmentalism.
Crowe was far from the only notable name honored Sunday. Fellow Oscar winner Jeremy Thomas, a veteran producer who landed gold for Bernardo Bertolucci’s best picture winner The Last Emperor from 1988, was presented with a lifetime achievement award while veteran location manager Pierre Agius snagged a career achievement honor. As previously announced, Euphoria breakout Barbie Ferreira touched down in Malta to pick up a rising star award for her screen accomplishments. The black-tie gala also hosted boldfaced names like Jon Watts, Edmund Donovan, Joaquim De Almeida, Bailey Bass, Kerry Ingram and more. See below for scenes from inside Sunday’s celebration.
Honoree Barbie Ferreira arrives at the Golden Bee Awards.
Courtesy of Shutterstock/Mediterrane Film Festival
VIP guests like Anna Camp and Chris Perfetti arrived by boat.
Courtesy of Mediterrane Film Festival
Jury member Charlese Antoinette.
Courtesy of Shutterstock/Mediterrane Film Festival
Jared Harris and his wife Allegra.
Courtesy of Mediterrane Film Festival
Amazon MGM Studios Glenn Gainor and his wife.
Courtesy of Mediterrane Film Festival
Mediterrane Film Festival director Ray Calleja greets The Theft of the Caravaggio filmmaker Joshua Cassar Gaspar.
Courtesy of Shutterstock/Mediterrane Film Festival
Host David Walliams fronts the Golden Bee Awards.
Courtesy of Shutterstock/Mediterrane Film Festival
Walliams kicks off the show, which featured songs and film clips selected to honor the past 100 years of filmmaking.
Courtesy of Shutterstock/Mediterrane Film Festival
Grech and Crowe, who hoists his Golden Bee trophy.
Courtesy of Shutterstock/Mediterrane Film Festival
A fireworks display lights up the sky.
Courtesy of Shutterstock/Mediterrane Film Festival
A group of performers (including Joseph Calleja, Destiny, Emily Sandé, among others) are seen on stage belting out “This is Me” from The Greatest Showman, which marked the grand finale of the show.
Courtesy of Shutterstock/Mediterrane Film Festival
Carolina Lopez Moreno performs “Beyond The Sea.”
Courtesy of Shutterstock/Mediterrane Film Festival
Anna Camp and her girlfriend, Jade Whipkey.
Courtesy of Mediterrane Film Festival
Chris Perfetti.
Courtesy of Mediterrane Film Festival
Host David Walliams, honoree Russell Crowe and Malta film commissioner Johann Grech.
Courtesy of Shutterstock/Mediterrane Film Festival
Presenter Karen Pittman.
Courtesy of Shutterstock/Mediterrane Film Festival
Edmund Donovan.
Courtesy of Mediterrane Film Festival
Tobey Maguire, Andrew Garfield and Tom Holland aren’t the only ones with Spidey senses.
Spider-Man: No Way Home director Jon Watts recalled a time when fans were speculating that the two Spider-Man stars were set to appear in the third Holland-led film ahead of its late 2021 release. During a conversation with Collider at the Mediterrane Film Festival, the filmmaker revealed he had to shift how Maguire and Garfield entered the story because a fan on Reddit predicted his original idea.
“There had been rumors that Tobey and Andrew were going to be in the movie, and this is while we’re shooting,” he recalled. “We were writing the script, and we were working on where we wanted to reveal the guys, and it always seemed like Peter’s going to be sad because Aunt May has just died, and that the portals are going to open, and the two Spider-Men are going to step out.”
Watts said after sleuthing on the discussion platform, he noticed a fan-made piece of art identical to the then-planned scene in No Way Home that would reveal Maguire and Garfield.
“Then I was on Reddit, and I was looking at people who had already made fan art of, ‘This is probably what it’s going to be like when the two Spider-Men get revealed.’ It was on a rooftop. It was sad, two Doctor Strange portals were open and two Spider-Men are stepping out,” he explained. “I was like, ‘Well, we can’t do that. If that’s exactly what everyone thinks we’re going to do, we absolutely can’t do that.’”
After that, they opted to have Maguire and Garfield’s Spider-Men appear in Ned’s (played by Jacob Batalon) grandmother’s home. Watts explained that they specifically wanted the two former Spider-Man actors to appear in such way to add an element of surprise for fans.
“So, after I saw all this fan art, and I’ve decided, ‘We absolutely can’t do just exactly what everyone thinks we’re going to do,’ I was like, ‘What does no one expect that we’re going to do? What’s something that no one’s going to see coming?’” he recalled. “I was like, ‘Probably having the two Spider-Men appear at Ned’s Filipino grandma’s house in Queens. I don’t think anyone was doing fan art of that on Reddit.’ It made perfect sense in the story because it’s kind of the first time we leave Peter’s narrative.”
Holland’s Peter Parker instead crossed paths with Maguire and Garfield’s Spider-Men on a roof while he’s mourning the death of Aunt May. Screenwriters Chris McKenna and Erik Sommers told The Hollywood Reporter both of the former franchise leads “had great ideas that really elevated everything” in terms of their evolving individual Spider-Man characters.
“They had thoughts, and it was really interesting and helpful to see their thoughts,” Sommers said, while McKenna added, “There’s a crucial, moral moment that they help [Holland’s Peter Parker] get through in the climax of the movie. So much of that was brought by Tobey and Andrew’s ideas and shaping of what they thought their characters could bring to this story.”
Holland’s fourth Spider-Man film, deemed Spider-Man: Brand New Day, will be directed by Destin Daniel Cretton (Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings). While details of the project have been strictly kept under wraps, McKenna and Sommers did return to write the screenplay.
Spider-Man: Brand New Day will hit theaters next summer on July 31, 2026.
Charlize Theron never planned to make a sequel to 2020’s The Old Guard, but when it became one of Netflix’s most viewed films of all time, the pieces already happened to be in place.
The coda at the end of Gina Prince-Bythewood’s soulful action drama teased that Quỳnh (Veronica Ngô), the long lost immortal lover of Theron’s Andromache (Andy) of Scythia, had finally been freed from her underwater tomb where she drowned and re-drowned millions upon millions of times. That extra piece of story wasn’t necessarily intended to be sequel bait; it just made sense to illustrate that the story is never over for a group of immortal warriors.
With director Victoria Mahoney now at the helm, The Old Guard 2 chronicles Andy and the Old Guard’s renewed purpose to do good in the world, all while Andy further adjusts to being a mere mortal per the last movie’s story point. But Quỳnh’s unexpected return to civilization and the simultaneous emergence of Uma Thurman’s mysterious figure known as Discord test Andy and her team in unprecedented ways. And similar to the original film, the second chapter also ends on another tantalizing cliffhanger.
When asked if she’s confident about the likelihood of a third Old Guard film, Theron refuses to get ahead of herself, something she’s wised up to over the years.
“Never confident, no. One thing I’ve learned in this business is that there are no guarantees, and it’s really gracious of [Netflix] to not have pushed us into another direction,” Theron tells The Hollywood Reporter in support of The Old Guard 2’s July 2 release. “This was always where we wanted to land the film, and it’s also very reminiscent of the first one. So we treated this one exactly the same, but I’m being completely honest when I say that we have absolutely no idea what that [third film] would even look like.”
Later this month, Theron will join the set of Christopher Nolan’s The Odyssey. She’s portraying the mighty sorceress, Circe, at a point when Nolan and co. have already been filming for five months.
“I feel like I’m going to be the new kid on the block. I know it’s epic from reading the script, but for myself, I’m only there for two weeks, I think,” Theron shares.
During an interview with this THR writer in 2020, Theron candidly expressed how “heartbreaking” it was to be recast ahead of George Miller’s Mad Max: Fury Road prequel, Furiosa. It’s rare for an actor and a character to catch lightning in a bottle like Theron and her vengeful mechanic did, and so one would think that today’s technology — or simple suspension of disbelief à la Spike Lee’s flashback narrative in Da 5 Bloods — would be pursued to keep that iconic pairing together. However, Anya Taylor-Joy instead took over the 20-something version of the character.
Theron has deep admiration for Taylor-Joy and Miller’s 2024 film, but she reiterates that the recasting is still a point of contention given how long she lived in Furiosa’s shoes and the hardships she endured along the way.
“There’s nothing around [the recasting] that, to me, felt malicious. It was something that just dragged out for too long, and I totally understand it. It still doesn’t make it feel any better,” Theron says. “I probably lived in [Furiosa’s] body the longest out of any of my characters, and it was challenging. It was really challenging. But I think [Furiosa: A Mad Max Saga] is absolutely beautiful.”
Fury Road’s chaotic production has been well documented at this point, but in an age where behind-the-scenes stories are being turned into narrative features or series more and more frequently, it seems inevitable that Fury Road will eventually get the same treatment that David Fincher applied to Citizen Kane through Mank. (Other recent making-of narratives include The Disaster Artist, The Offer and Peter Farrelly’s upcoming movie about Rocky.)
Theron has never contemplated the possibility of a Fury Road making-of movie, but she does agree with the suggestion that a former co-star of hers would be an excellent choice to play her. “Yeah, [Mackenzie Davis] is incredible. She’s got the arms,” Theron says.
Below, during a recent conversation with THR, Theron also discusses her friendship with Keanu Reeves and their ongoing attempts to reunite on screen. Then she previews her next Netflix actioner, Apex.
***
On behalf of everyone, we love when you make action movies, but you always seem to pay a physical toll for our entertainment. Did that trend continue on this one?
I got a black eye on this one, but I didn’t break anything, so it’s getting better.
Compared to your past movies, I’m glad to hear that.
It’s mostly bruising. It’s a kind of bruising that is hard to describe. When you do these fight sequences where you don’t want to cut every two seconds, there’s no way around it. So to play things continuously, your body takes a bit of a bruising, and there’s only so many pads that you can put underneath your costume.
Charlize Theron as Andy in The Old Guard 2.
Eli Joshua Ade/Netflix
Are you glad that the stunt community that helps create Andy, Lorraine (Atomic Blonde) and Furiosa can finally receive Oscar recognition?
Over the moon. It’s such a joyous moment, but it’s also frustrating that it took this long. They are incredible performers, and without those performances, we couldn’t do what we need to do.
Andy is still mortal like she was at the end of the first Old Guard, and there are times where she has to use KiKi Layne’s character, Nile, as a shield. But overall, does she still fight as if she’s immortal? Or has she had to change her fighting style?
Yeah, I don’t think she’s reckless. She’s eager, but she’s not reckless. She really values working as a team and she really values her team. She also finds something in Nile that makes her want to be close to her, even though she’s being a shield for her. She knows that she’s going to be okay, but she wants to keep her close to her. So I don’t think she’s got a death wish. That’s not the Andy that we meet. We meet an Andy who is at peace with her reality and her circumstance, but she’s also excited to want to continue.
Having Uma Thurman square off against you is inspired casting. Had the two of you crossed paths over the years?
No, we kind of knew each other from afar, but I’ve always been a massive fan. I can’t tell you how many times we’ve developed something and I would throw her name out there. I’ve constantly tried to pull something together with us, and I’ve also had so many people around me whose opinions I really value, say, “You guys have to make a movie. People will absolutely love to see the two of you do action.” Her action is so strong, and she’s really raised the bar. So I felt like I had to really bring it. She was going to bring it, so I had to bring it.
I’ve been laughing to myself over what you said to her during your Hot Ones Versus episode: “Just eat a fucking wing, bitch!”
(Laughs.) That’s amazing. I can’t even remember saying that because I was in such panic. So thanks for reminding me. I’ll make a mental note of that.
Have you spent much time on helicopters? I suppose what I’m really asking is why you’d put yourself through the harrowing stunt of hanging off one.
No, I haven’t spent a lot of time on helicopters; I’m not crazy about them either. It just came out of the creative process and wanting to make that third-act set piece be as big as we all wanted it to be. Given that Uma was in it, we wanted it to really feel like an incredible set piece. So when we started adding these helicopters, we then had to figure out how they fit into the action.
Fred North, who’s a legend in the business and does all the helicopter action work in every movie, then came on board. And I asked him: “How can we enhance this story without it feeling like action for the sake of action? How can we do it in a way that feels practical and not on stage with a blue screen or a green screen? How can we do it practically and safely so that it feels like you haven’t seen this before in a movie?” And he said to us, “I don’t know why, but I’ve never done this with an actor. [Hanging an actor off the side of a helicopter] is actually incredibly safe if we do it the right way. It will look great, and you can do it all practically with a real helicopter.” So he was really the one that threw this idea at us, and that’s where it originated.
Charlize Theron as Andy and Uma Thurman as Discord in The Old Guard 2.
Eli Joshua Ade/Netflix
It’s so easy to be impressed by what you pull off on screen, but you often talk about how unimpressed your kids are. Have they given you your props yet?
They’re kids. They’re doing exactly what they’re supposed to do. I don’t think anybody’s kids really feel that way about their parents, no matter what they do. And they’re teenagers now. So, even if they were [impressed], they would never show it. But I want to believe that we’ll actually sit down one day when they’re old enough to have a glass of wine, and they’ll say, “You know what, Mom? It was pretty badass when you were 50 and you were hanging off that helicopter. We never gave you your props.”
You wrapped principal photography on The Old Guard 2 a few years ago, but post-production lasted much longer than anyone expected. Did any silver linings emerge from the extra time?
Yeah, you just try to utilize the time. It wasn’t necessarily [extra] time that we wanted. It was unfortunate, and it was just what was going on in the world. COVID was still really taking a toll on our business, and we had to shut down a couple of times. But you take advantage of that, and the creativity never stops. Even when you cut the camera, you’re still thinking about it that night, and it’s the same in the editorial process. So I never looked at that time as wasted. There’s nothing you can do about it, you can’t control it, but we utilized it to our best. We threw a lot of spaghetti against the wall, so we really, really know that this is the best movie being put forward.
The film ends on a brutal cliffhanger, and I desperately want to believe that Netflix wouldn’t let you do that unless they already expressed interest in a third film. How confident are you at this moment in time?
Oh, never confident, no. One thing I’ve learned in this business is that there are no guarantees, and it’s really gracious of [Netflix] to not have pushed us into another direction. This was always where we wanted to land the film, and it’s also very reminiscent of the first one. We never ended the first one thinking we were going to do a second, but that was just how it happened to be. So we treated this one exactly the same, but I’m being completely honest when I say that we have absolutely no idea what that [third film] would even look like.
What else are you proud of on a producorial level?
First and foremost, nobody got hurt. That’s the thing that you’re always challenged by and worried about, especially when big set pieces come up. It’s making sure that nothing falls through the cracks. We did that big end [helicopter] set piece towards the end of the shoot, and it was already a long shoot. Everybody was really tired, and that’s when you really have to have an extra cup of coffee because that’s usually when mistakes happen. So I’m just really happy that nobody got hurt.
Secondly, I’m really proud of the film that we’re putting out. It hasn’t necessarily been an easy nut to crack. It’s a big world with giant mythology, and the characters play a central part in telling the story of the Old Guard. So it makes the writing and the development really challenging because you want everybody to be able to have time. This is why television is so great. How do you do that in two hours and really give everybody the moment that they need in a story? It’s really complicated without making it convoluted.
So I look at the movie now after many years of it being in post, and I’m very, very proud of the film that we’re putting forward. We really did what we initially set out to accomplish, and we never backed off that. No matter how hard it got, we stayed on that same road.
(L-R) Henry Golding as Tuah, Luca Marinelli as Nicky, Marwan Kenzari as Joe, Charlize Theron as Andy and KiKi Layne as Nile in The Old Guard 2.
Eli Joshua Ade/Netflix
During summer 2020 press for the first Old Guard, I remember you getting a lot of headlines for saying that you’d never had a meeting with Marvel to that point. Did those headlines actually wake them up? The timing between your quote and Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness’ photography was close enough that it gave off that impression.
Oh, I have no idea. I spent one day with them on that set. I spent most of that time really trying to wrap my head around what they wanted to do and where this was going. This is their process. It works for them. I was happy to come on board because it felt like there was a lot of room to explore, but I don’t know if that’s what it was. I should have asked them.
In other news, congratulations on being employed by Christopher Nolan.
Thanks!
You’ve been on plenty of huge movies, but does this one take the cake?
Well, I haven’t been there yet. Like you guys, I’m just hearing and seeing everything from afar. I’m leaving in three weeks or something like that, and I feel like I’m going to be the new kid on the block. I know it’s epic from reading the script, but for myself, I’m only there for two weeks, I think. Chris is the kind of filmmaker who knows exactly what’s in his head, and he knows the movie that he’s making, so I am going to go with that. But doing Fury Road and shooting it for a hundred days, that was as epic as I’ve ever gone. [Note: Theron has since confirmed that she’s playing the sorceress Circe.]
There’s a somewhat recent trend of movies or shows about the making of famous movies. David Fincher made Mank about the writing of Citizen Kane. The Disaster Artist chronicled The Room’s origin. The Offer explored the behind-the-scenes of The Godfather, and there’s a movie being made soon about Rocky’s production. Do you think it’s only a matter of time before somebody makes a narrative feature about the making of Mad Max: Fury Road?
I can honestly tell you I’ve never thought about that. I do not know what the realities are or how plausible [that would be]. I can’t even think about it that way. The great thing is people can be so creative and actually pull something great out of that, but it’s just not something that I’ve ever spent any time thinking about.
I already know who should play you in the behind-the-scenes movie, and it’s obvious to anyone who’s seen a 2018 gem called Tully.
(Laughs.) Yeah, [Mackenzie Davis] is incredible. She’s got the arms.
When I spoke to you five years ago, you were incredibly candid about Furiosa: A Mad Max Saga and how “heartbreaking” that recasting decision was. Did you let yourself watch it?
I watched it, and I think it’s a beautiful film. I am a massive fan of Anya [Taylor-Joy]. She’s an incredible actor. There’s nothing around [the recasting] that, to me, felt malicious. It was something that just dragged out for too long, and I totally understand it. It still doesn’t make it feel any better. I probably lived in [Furiosa’s] body the longest out of any of my characters, and it was challenging. It was really challenging. But I am so supportive of what ended up happening, and I think the movie is absolutely beautiful.
You were bowled over when I previously mentioned this to you, but I spoke to John Wick directors, Chad Stahelski and Dave Leitch, for their film’s tenth anniversary last year. And I informed them both that your terminally ill Sweet November character mailed a dog to Keanu 13 years before John Wick’s terminally ill wife mailed him a dog. Apparently, Chad learned about it shortly after the first movie came out, but Dave didn’t know.
(Laughs.) You are obviously a lover of film because not a lot of people would know that.
More importantly, it’s been too long since you and Keanu have worked together. Who can I blame for this drought?
Honestly, there’s no one to blame. We are really trying, and we have been for all these years. Obviously, we are both very busy, but we have been in development on a couple of things. We’re both very similar in the sense that we love each other. We’re family, and we want to find the thing that is really worthy of the two of us being in it. In many ways, it’s like doing a sequel to [The Old Guard]. We don’t want to just do it for the sake of doing so, but we think about it a lot.
You mentioned during your Hot Ones episode that Keanu is most likely to not show up for a dinner party of yours. Is that a thing with him?
Oh my gosh, did I? I can’t remember why I said that. He definitely goes by his own clock, but not in a disrespectful way. He always shows up. He’s professional. He’s a great friend. He’s one of the most loyal friends I’ve ever had. He’s also great in the sense that you can pick up with him exactly where you left off, and I don’t need to talk to him every single day. But he is a bit of an enigma, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t show up.
The first time you worked together was on The Devil’s Advocate (1997). Was the darkness of that story a lot to put yourself through so early in your career?
Now, when I think back, I’m like, “Yeah.” Maybe it’s just me, but when you’re that age, you’re just so naive, almost. You’re so eager that you almost don’t have time to think about the fact that this could really fall on its face. You’re working with brilliant actors, one who was legendary at that time. You have never done anything to stand on, and you’re all of a sudden doing a scene opposite Al Pacino at 3:00 AM. It could all go so wrong, but when you’re that age and you’re that eager, I was just completely optimistic. It doesn’t mean that you don’t feel like you’re going to fail, but you’re more like, “I’m going to get it right. Give me one more shot. I’m going to get this right.” So, in retrospect, there’s this wonderful fearlessness that we have when we’re young. It’s called stupidity. (Laughs.) We lose a little bit of that as we get older, but that fearlessness is what I think got me to where I am, hopefully.
You were an EP on Mindhunter, and there was recent talk that it might be revived in the form of three feature films. Should we temper our expectations at this current juncture?
I think you know just as well as I do that it’s really in the world of David. It’s up to him, and if he wraps his head around it, then it will happen. I know that he loves this world just as much as I do, but he only does things when he really feels like there’s potential in it. He’s a realist, and if he wants to do it, he’ll do it.
Lastly, you just produced and starred in another Netflix actioner called Apex?
Yeah, we just wrapped Apex. It was really a challenge, and it was a different challenge. When I read the script, I was like, “Oh, this could be really refreshing. There’s no fight scenes, so I won’t have to learn a style of fighting. It’s really just action, like climbing a mountain and running.” And boy was I wrong. I messed with the Gods. It was very practical, very real, and I truly did things on this movie that I never ever thought I would do. So it’s been good. I keep pushing myself.
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The Old Guard 2 premieres July 2 on Netflix.